WEBVTT 1 00:01:06.150 --> 00:01:12.440 BSPH Webinars: And you please forgive me for being so late. I'm so sorry. Oh, my gosh, forgive me! 2 00:01:13.440 --> 00:01:20.070 BSPH Webinars: Oh, all right. This is a hard I I got sidetracked and forgot. I'm so sorry 3 00:01:20.870 --> 00:01:23.290 Elizabeth Stuart: we will make it work. 4 00:01:23.450 --> 00:01:24.740 BSPH Webinars: I know. 5 00:01:24.770 --> 00:01:27.459 BSPH Webinars: Professor Gondler was still trying to get in. 6 00:01:28.070 --> 00:01:31.589 BSPH Webinars: She said she couldn't find her link again. 7 00:01:32.330 --> 00:01:40.009 BSPH Webinars: so let me. Maybe it might be easy. If I just center the information might be just easier. I mean, I could resend it the link. But 8 00:01:44.080 --> 00:01:45.819 BSPH Webinars: let me just send a 9 00:01:45.860 --> 00:01:49.429 M E Hughes: I have the email. I'll just send it right to her. Now. 10 00:01:52.750 --> 00:01:54.569 Elizabeth Stuart: Sorry. 11 00:01:54.620 --> 00:01:59.050 M E Hughes: Well, I promise scandal. I'd be here to ask crazy questions. So 12 00:01:59.340 --> 00:02:06.510 M E Hughes: like the naive questions. But let me focus on one thing at a time, because my brain is not very at a depth. 13 00:02:06.710 --> 00:02:08.350 M E Hughes: let's see 14 00:02:09.150 --> 00:02:10.480 how is this it? 15 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:19.140 Elizabeth Stuart: Welcome, everyone? Sorry we are. We are not normally discombobulated quite this much. 16 00:02:19.160 --> 00:02:23.600 Elizabeth Stuart: Sometimes we are. It's just hidden. But 17 00:02:25.040 --> 00:02:31.820 Elizabeth Stuart: I will mute myself, so we will. I will welcome everyone in a second and be super fast, and then we will 18 00:02:32.250 --> 00:02:36.050 Elizabeth Stuart: get going, but we do need our main organizer. 19 00:02:37.910 --> 00:02:40.120 BSPH Webinars: I just sent to the information also 20 00:02:40.140 --> 00:02:42.330 M E Hughes: nothing. 21 00:02:42.790 --> 00:02:44.850 M E Hughes: That's sort of a comment on life 22 00:02:46.860 --> 00:02:52.719 M E Hughes: you have to put up with my silliness. I the brain fog is just. I have Covid everybody. Not that I 23 00:02:53.080 --> 00:03:03.380 M E Hughes: Yeah. My husband finally tested himself yesterday, and then I started feeling really terrible. So yesterday I sent an email to the entire life course class that sent it to last terms class. 24 00:03:05.790 --> 00:03:16.129 M E Hughes: So I sent an email saying, Oops, and I got a couple of email saying, oh, thank you. This made me laugh because it was like, i'm so sorry. Life Course Isn't coming back to haunt you. 25 00:03:17.010 --> 00:03:25.190 M E Hughes: Where's your assignment? One: yeah, exactly exactly where for assignment. Didn't you know that there were due dates in term, too. 26 00:03:25.290 --> 00:03:26.090 just? 27 00:03:27.010 --> 00:03:34.090 M E Hughes: And of course I realized it shows that we're all human. Yeah, Well, no. And i'm big on, you know, showing that to students because it's like, you know. 28 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:36.500 M E Hughes: listens them up a little. 29 00:03:39.230 --> 00:03:42.129 Elizabeth Stuart: all right. And Shawn, once we get started. You 30 00:03:44.820 --> 00:03:45.570 BSPH Webinars: Yeah. 31 00:03:45.650 --> 00:03:48.850 Elizabeth Stuart: I need to record this part. 32 00:03:48.970 --> 00:03:56.200 BSPH Webinars: Right? That 33 00:03:57.580 --> 00:04:00.659 BSPH Webinars: Yeah, All right, okay, Admit all. 34 00:04:01.270 --> 00:04:04.190 BSPH Webinars: And I can turn that waiting room off. 35 00:04:07.650 --> 00:04:13.180 BSPH Webinars: Excellent! 36 00:04:17.070 --> 00:04:18.880 BSPH Webinars: yeah. 37 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:19.920 BSPH Webinars: Did that? 38 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:25.049 BSPH Webinars: What's the same? Please ask her. Oh, I I know why. 39 00:04:27.840 --> 00:04:28.560 bye bye. 40 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:31.850 BSPH Webinars: Sorry. 41 00:04:32.610 --> 00:04:33.510 Okay. 42 00:04:39.960 --> 00:04:42.639 BSPH Webinars: I think it's Yes, recording. Now. Okay, we're good. 43 00:04:43.700 --> 00:04:47.050 Elizabeth Stuart: Okay, you're recording. 44 00:04:47.260 --> 00:04:51.669 Elizabeth Stuart: So I will very quickly welcome everyone. Sorry for the 45 00:04:51.790 --> 00:04:57.020 Elizabeth Stuart: hullabaloo. But we are on track. Now welcome to this teaching 46 00:04:57.070 --> 00:05:05.980 Elizabeth Stuart: workshop and this is sort of on ethical issues associated with teaching as research and sort of thinking about. How do we learn from the really great 47 00:05:06.020 --> 00:05:14.550 Elizabeth Stuart: teaching innovations we're making? And how do we use that to help improve our and others teaching and and public health practice and all sorts of things. 48 00:05:14.610 --> 00:05:20.049 Elizabeth Stuart: So I will just really quickly welcome everyone. I'm Liz Stewart, Executive Vice team for academic affairs. 49 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:32.350 Elizabeth Stuart: this is in a series of teaching workshops that we've done starting at the very beginning of the pandemic, and continued: I want to mention Sarah Murray and John Mcgrady, who are 50 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:51.880 Elizabeth Stuart: organizing this series. Now as part of our teaching Council. If you have ideas for future workshops, please put them in the chat, or reach out to John or Sarah. we'll be doing these every 2 months or so during the academic year, and really looking for ideas. So I don't want to take a lot of time, but I want to do want to thank the 51 00:05:52.110 --> 00:06:07.179 Elizabeth Stuart: participants and organizers from today. So Dr. Gondola Bosch will be, I think, the moderator today, Emmy Hughes, Rosa, Salaman, and Nagi. We're we'll also be participating in offering their insights. and so 52 00:06:07.190 --> 00:06:12.439 Elizabeth Stuart: I will without further ado pass it over to Dr. Bosh. Thank you so much. 53 00:06:12.970 --> 00:06:30.280 Gundula Bosch: Thank you so much for the very kind introduction, and always for your constant support in this series. This is very helpful for us, and very encouraging, same as Felicity, who is always so very kindly, supporting us in this in this endeavor here all the time, so couldn't do it without 54 00:06:30.340 --> 00:06:33.520 Gundula Bosch: the help of all the wonderful colleagues. 55 00:06:33.760 --> 00:06:51.830 Gundula Bosch: Yeah, this is a a great joy for us to Continuing our series. We always love this to talk about anything that has to do with education, educational scholarship, as I know everybody else who is on this call does, and let me quickly share in the screen to show the gang. Essentially 56 00:06:51.870 --> 00:07:01.230 Gundula Bosch: it's a gang to consists, of course, as we as we saw just the before of the the Stewart. And then, my very dear colleague, and me, Hughes 57 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:18.780 Gundula Bosch: from a population family reproductive health, Rosa Salamiyan from bmb, and my very dear colleague, Maggie, away from the rice center and from mmi let me see how I can make this bigger. So I think now we are full screen on. 58 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:31.799 Gundula Bosch: Yeah, and now I need to find a button to at once. Okay, good. And also a quick and and definitely loud shout out, I think Toby is here with us in the in the 59 00:07:33.370 --> 00:07:51.490 Gundula Bosch: Always help us advice, support, collaboration, and first and forward, of course, that the Joan padded our executive director of the IP office, who has, you know, been so invaluable. With with all her help, advice and her constant combo through the pandemic as well as so 60 00:07:51.500 --> 00:08:05.499 Gundula Bosch: erez agmoni. This preparation for this seminar, as well as to all kind of future activities that we have going on, and of course Utopi very kindly been there with us in many different situations, and I think you will be, especially for many of us and many of the people who listen 250. 61 00:08:05.510 --> 00:08:25.249 Gundula Bosch: So the seminar, and maybe also later through the recording, be absolutely wonderful in terms of your constant help and support. so it's it's IP questions, and then also i'm not sure whether he's here. But up to Tyler Deris, who has also been very instrumental in preparing repairing us for this seminar, and some related topics, who's the associate director of Source. 62 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:30.999 Gundula Bosch: and also to whom I want to congratulate. And I shout out because he was just 63 00:08:31.310 --> 00:08:32.549 Gundula Bosch: promoted 64 00:08:32.690 --> 00:08:36.589 Gundula Bosch: to a assistant scientist. So this is something to celebrate. 65 00:08:36.770 --> 00:08:52.179 Gundula Bosch: And then, of course, apart from you, which was wonderful to have you here also Felicity Beverly and Shawn to help us with all the organizational things. Yeah. And with that we wanted to get started into our part. 2 of our Tar series, our seminar series, 101 66 00:08:52.230 --> 00:09:07.180 Gundula Bosch: mit ctl and ethical considerations about teaching as research, something that many of us are some kind of vaguely aware that there are some mythical questions, but we are not quite sure exactly how they are looking like what they are when we need to pay attention to this 150. 67 00:09:07.300 --> 00:09:09.869 Gundula Bosch: So we wanted to raise some awareness here. 68 00:09:09.900 --> 00:09:23.340 Gundula Bosch: and definitely not poach in the field of our experts from the Irb, but definitely make sure that everybody is aware of. When do you have to talk to your IP officer, which I think you will find after the seminar is all the time early, and you know, make sure that you do. 69 00:09:23.790 --> 00:09:28.439 Gundula Bosch: Okay, what else? Yeah. So I need to quickly move 70 00:09:28.540 --> 00:09:30.830 Gundula Bosch: things around on my screen. 71 00:09:32.190 --> 00:09:34.709 Gundula Bosch: But yeah, so what's the agenda for today? 72 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:42.050 Gundula Bosch: Last time, when you followed us in March. There's also recording for our teaching workshop that we offered in March. 73 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:49.819 Gundula Bosch: We looked around to see, like, okay, what what kind of situations in our teaching practice can we use actually as research? So how can teaching be research? One? 74 00:09:49.970 --> 00:09:55.180 Gundula Bosch: And so now it's? Let's assume you have found an interesting course, or a workshop, or another learning experience that you have. 75 00:09:55.310 --> 00:10:10.869 Gundula Bosch: And if you want to publish, since it like, wait a minute. So there are actually situations where you definitely have to think about the implications you want to sensitize you a little bit to what these situations are, and exactly also what are the ethical implications that you need to think about. 76 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:20.449 Gundula Bosch: Give me just a few hops a few seconds because i'm trying to move around things here on my screen that I can see you. 77 00:10:20.510 --> 00:10:31.470 Gundula Bosch: Basically, we would like to you today. We would like to cover. Why, we need to consider Essex when using using student course data 78 00:10:31.530 --> 00:10:50.599 Gundula Bosch: mit ctl and research. There's always colleagues who are very astonished that there are ethical, and I will be related questions involved when I told to consult in ethical approval questions what to pay attention to when collecting educational data from students, and if you have 2 different sub points here, one will be ethical considerations when designing 100 79 00:10:50.610 --> 00:10:55.760 Gundula Bosch: assessment instruments which has equity, questions, and equity issues involved. 80 00:10:55.980 --> 00:11:03.100 Gundula Bosch: and then also applications of the balance principles to the way, how we administer assessments in educational research. 81 00:11:03.410 --> 00:11:08.210 Gundula Bosch: and then planning considerations for IP applications for our tar projects. 82 00:11:08.420 --> 00:11:25.540 Gundula Bosch: And then also how to distinguish teaching is research from what is known quite often in the communities that do community based practice course based research. So that's quite often considered as a great down. We want to help clarify a couple of questions that often come up here in this context. 83 00:11:26.770 --> 00:11:28.880 So. 84 00:11:30.620 --> 00:11:33.140 Gundula Bosch: and 85 00:11:33.290 --> 00:11:40.220 Gundula Bosch: essentially, just as a brief recap from last time scholarly activities. with in. 86 00:11:43.310 --> 00:11:53.170 Gundula Bosch: So basically require us to look into ethical questions, multiply. So when they essentially, when they do not involve any kind of human resource data collection. 87 00:11:53.180 --> 00:12:08.440 Gundula Bosch: Then you do not have to ask for any specific approval, because it's usually something that doesn't involve any kind of data. So perspectives app, or its essays, reviews a book chip that it only talk about concepts. But Don't involve any kind of human subject data. 88 00:12:08.590 --> 00:12:09.540 Gundula Bosch: Hi, everyone 89 00:12:10.430 --> 00:12:13.860 Gundula Bosch: venue, include human subject data of some sort 90 00:12:13.880 --> 00:12:22.050 Gundula Bosch: it definitely to ask for IP approval. And please please please contact your IP officer or our wonderful Toby Mcinnis early in the process to ask 91 00:12:22.340 --> 00:12:29.959 Gundula Bosch: is what I'm doing. You know human subject research, and what do I have to do in order to be on the right path when it comes to ethics. 92 00:12:30.210 --> 00:12:39.529 Gundula Bosch: This can be all kinds of things that we often do in education, for example, needs assessments here on the right hand side evaluations of outcomes and 93 00:12:39.540 --> 00:12:53.070 Gundula Bosch: so assessments of of learning, of all kinds of sorts, courses, programs, workshops, seminars, formative and summative data that we collect as well as assessment instrument validation. Many of us do that all the time. So basically if you are involved in these activities. 94 00:12:53.570 --> 00:13:01.239 Gundula Bosch: try to get in contact with your Rp. Officer. Should you think about using these activities for research means 95 00:13:01.630 --> 00:13:09.249 Gundula Bosch: for activities that have to do with dissemination, They're going to get into this a little bit more deeply in the upcoming slides. 96 00:13:09.350 --> 00:13:15.540 Gundula Bosch: So essentially this gets right into the point. When is teaching us research, human subject research. 97 00:13:16.160 --> 00:13:22.930 Gundula Bosch: So to this side of with a, Your tar project must be treated as a human subject research project. 98 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:29.980 Gundula Bosch: We need to define the 2 terms research and human subjects in this particular context, when it comes to ethical questions 99 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:40.479 Gundula Bosch: mit ctl. And so the first one tar project is considered research, even if you considered research. Now we look at specifically from an Rb and Essex point of view, 150, 100 00:13:40.910 --> 00:13:49.719 Gundula Bosch: if it is not solely serving the purpose of internal self-evaluative assessment of student learning aiming to improve, for example, the course 101 00:13:50.260 --> 00:13:55.189 Gundula Bosch: and if it is geared towards even potentially, or at a later point 102 00:13:55.290 --> 00:14:07.240 Gundula Bosch: mit Ctl. And using the data collected for dissemination of some sort. So this is important, right? So like, if you only keep your data for yourself, and the only thing you do is to look at many. Call it action research. Essentially, you collect data, one 103 00:14:07.250 --> 00:14:24.619 Gundula Bosch: and you want to see, like, okay. So this particular part of what I was teaching went very well, so maybe i'm going to leave that the same. But i'm going to change a different other part for next year to make the course better, and you never have to intentionally, never do actually disseminate your data. Then this is just basically evaluation is fine. 104 00:14:24.630 --> 00:14:29.239 Gundula Bosch: However, if you then later on find oh, well, actually, what I'm doing becomes interesting 105 00:14:29.560 --> 00:14:44.339 Gundula Bosch: erez agmoni. Then, of course, rather sooner rather than later, You need to ask your Rb. Officer in order to prepare yourself for an Ib. Approval, because as soon as you want to bring those data to the outside world, and be this in form of a formal publication. It is in firm of 101 106 00:14:44.350 --> 00:14:52.959 Gundula Bosch: preliminary data for our Grant Conference contribution. Seminars invited talks. What have you. All of these things are forms of dissemination, and you need to have an irb approval for that. 107 00:14:54.210 --> 00:14:59.280 Gundula Bosch: And then we need to define the other term human subject. Human subjects 108 00:14:59.670 --> 00:15:02.810 Gundula Bosch: serve as sources of information. 109 00:15:03.100 --> 00:15:03.810 Gundula Bosch: right? 110 00:15:04.550 --> 00:15:16.680 Gundula Bosch: And these data, be they primary or secondary can be obtained from so when it's human. It's human subject data when they are obtained or used 111 00:15:16.750 --> 00:15:19.139 Gundula Bosch: when they are not publicly available. 112 00:15:19.260 --> 00:15:25.180 Gundula Bosch: So basically publicly available data do not qualify for human subject research, but when they are not publicly available. 113 00:15:25.400 --> 00:15:32.090 Gundula Bosch: and a result from interventions or interactions with the individuals, beat us like opinions, attitudes, behaviors. 114 00:15:32.170 --> 00:15:38.130 Gundula Bosch: or reactions to interventions, learning outcomes any kind of data from that. 115 00:15:38.300 --> 00:15:55.809 Gundula Bosch: and when they contain the identifiable information and or allowed to infer a participant's identity right? So we here particularly have to look at our small class settings. That's very easy to figure out from. For example, from survey answers whether somebody is, you know, student a or Student B, because we know them so well, right? 116 00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:59.060 Gundula Bosch: So these are basically things to keep in mind. 117 00:15:59.670 --> 00:16:05.939 Gundula Bosch: So we always need to keep in mind in this context also, that students, of course, represent a vulnerable population. 118 00:16:06.370 --> 00:16:16.549 Gundula Bosch: and so designing and administering our teaching as research assessments to collect those status about students. Learning requires. Consider ethical considerations right one. 119 00:16:16.560 --> 00:16:29.720 Gundula Bosch: So into this end i'm going to hand it over now to Meiki, who is going to talk about instructional design perspectives, namely, how to ethically design assessments. And then we are going to look into how we one 120 00:16:31.110 --> 00:16:39.930 Gundula Bosch: we need to pay attention to application of the Belmont principles, our values and Federal regulations when it comes to administering the assessments One. 121 00:16:39.950 --> 00:16:42.030 Gundula Bosch: Meg, would you please take over to Mike? 122 00:16:42.100 --> 00:16:51.320 Maggie Wear: Thanks a lot so one of the things that I really enjoy actually is assessment development. That may sound a little strange to some people. But 123 00:16:51.430 --> 00:17:00.949 Maggie Wear: and I think that's partly because I think it's interesting to think about the type of questions that we're asking, and why we're asking them. 124 00:17:01.750 --> 00:17:06.550 Maggie Wear: And this is where obviously ethical considerations become important. 125 00:17:06.650 --> 00:17:19.949 Maggie Wear: So there's a a lot of different types of assessment design and I think we're going to have a different workshop on how to design assessments, what! You're looking, the information you're looking to get out of it. 126 00:17:20.040 --> 00:17:38.570 Maggie Wear: and then the best way to build them. But in terms of ethics we always have to think about whether we're looking for student development, how the students have changed through taking your course, or if you're looking at course, design, and the utility of that 127 00:17:38.580 --> 00:17:56.699 Maggie Wear: within larger schemes like public health. We have to think about the way that we're asking our questions. and the it's very important that these are inclusive. left a little note at the bottom here. to think about aspects of universal design which Ctl talks about all the time. 128 00:17:57.190 --> 00:17:59.030 Maggie Wear: and inclusive 129 00:17:59.060 --> 00:18:16.160 Maggie Wear: wording can allow you to not put so many labels on people so often there are people who are differently abled. this may mean that they are neuro atypical. it may mean that they simply come from 130 00:18:16.460 --> 00:18:22.279 Maggie Wear: a different way of thinking about things. This can also affect people who come from different countries. 131 00:18:22.510 --> 00:18:27.319 Maggie Wear: and the way that we sometimes assign labels, even down to gender. 132 00:18:27.350 --> 00:18:33.930 Maggie Wear: can become an issue. when we're thinking about wording and the types of questions that we're asking. 133 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:44.630 Maggie Wear: So when we think about the types of questions, sometimes you have information that you really want to know that comes out of these classes, and you're like. This is what I want to be able to say. 134 00:18:44.730 --> 00:19:07.209 Maggie Wear: But this can often result in directive questions. Where? Because you know the information that you want, the way in which you write, the question becomes suggestive to the audience. Who's reading it as opposed to one that is open, ended, and allows you to get all of the information that the student is able and willing to give, or the audience is able and willing to give 135 00:19:07.450 --> 00:19:17.809 Maggie Wear: now that open-ended question can also lead to some complications that i'm pretty sure good to talk about in terms of the ethical considerations there. 136 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:26.349 Maggie Wear: there's also a lot of biases that can happen in questions. So I put grandfather clause in quotes here as just one simple example. 137 00:19:26.580 --> 00:19:42.690 Maggie Wear: so I don't know if anybody has read up on this, but the term grandfather clause is, in fact, a very racially divisive term. So this is what I talk about sometimes in in in terms of inclusive wording. And then again, it has that can bias a question. 138 00:19:42.820 --> 00:19:45.490 Maggie Wear: So the grandfather claws came 139 00:19:45.750 --> 00:19:46.920 Maggie Wear: from 140 00:19:47.170 --> 00:20:00.960 Maggie Wear: slavery, and the the 5, the three-fifths law. That the only way that you could be considered a citizen and able to whoa vote is, if your grandfather was able to. That's the origin of this turn. 141 00:20:01.180 --> 00:20:02.070 Maggie Wear: So 142 00:20:02.090 --> 00:20:08.439 Maggie Wear: thinking about the types of words that you use, and the reasoning behind the questions that you're asking 143 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:13.339 Maggie Wear: is something you really have to consider, and and the ethical implications of that, and 144 00:20:13.650 --> 00:20:24.100 Maggie Wear: it not just how the ethics can can be important here. But how the way in which you ask a question could be interpreted by your audience. 145 00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:28.610 Maggie Wear: so that may not be directly ethical, but it is moral. 146 00:20:29.350 --> 00:20:32.860 Maggie Wear: also. What your expectations are. So 147 00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:49.899 Maggie Wear: if you're building your questions off your learning objectives as you've written in the class, then that gives you a much more continuous ethical viewpoint to look at as opposed to. If you're building them off of the data that you want. 148 00:20:50.980 --> 00:20:53.820 Maggie Wear: and also requiring questions. 149 00:20:53.860 --> 00:21:01.550 Maggie Wear: So never should questions be required for your audience to answer, because that puts upon them 150 00:21:01.700 --> 00:21:06.930 Maggie Wear: certain ethical consideration certain ethical expectations that we can't put there 151 00:21:07.120 --> 00:21:18.950 Maggie Wear: so it when you're writing up your irb, and you're getting all of these things approved. These are some important things to consider. And now good meals, talk gonna talk about it from another perspective. 152 00:21:21.750 --> 00:21:23.520 Maggie Wear: And we're going to get further into it. 153 00:21:24.990 --> 00:21:30.650 Gundula Bosch: Thank you so much, Mickey. And as Mickey just very briefly alluded to, I wanted to highlight this 154 00:21:30.670 --> 00:21:40.249 Gundula Bosch: and more that there will likely be a separate workshops about assessment design, because it has been requested by multiple colleagues. 155 00:21:40.390 --> 00:21:51.939 Gundula Bosch: and it's always something that I think, is a active field of research in the educational community that we are happy to offer as a team sometime, you know, next year. 156 00:21:52.540 --> 00:22:03.019 Gundula Bosch: Yeah. So basically. these are important considerations from an equity point of view when we look at assessments, but also we need to look at 150. 157 00:22:03.040 --> 00:22:19.810 Gundula Bosch: what are questions? If you need to consider an issues we need to consider, then administering our assessments. And here the famous Bellman principles come into play. And of course, in this audience here at the School of Public Health License on all of you, of course, continuously have to refresh 158 00:22:19.820 --> 00:22:35.840 Gundula Bosch: the city trading. I don't need to elaborate at what department principles are, but what i'm quite often getting in a conversations with colleagues is, you know, what do I mean when we do educational research. When do we try to do teaching as research? How does this apply? 159 00:22:36.080 --> 00:22:38.700 So essentially? Let's go to them very quickly. 160 00:22:39.130 --> 00:22:48.870 Gundula Bosch: So respect for persons and their autonomy. Of course we includes the right of students to freely choose whether they wish to participate in our teaching as research, project, study or not. 161 00:22:49.140 --> 00:23:00.579 Gundula Bosch: and during the informed consent process, and throughout the study, and afterwards student self-determination, privacy and confidentiality must be ensured at all times. So what does, what does it mean for our projects? 162 00:23:00.750 --> 00:23:07.519 Gundula Bosch: We need to avoid the notion of coercion and conflicts of interest during the enrollment and study execution. 163 00:23:07.670 --> 00:23:14.380 Gundula Bosch: So, for example, our advertisement strategy. When we call for participants who want to participate in our study 164 00:23:14.410 --> 00:23:26.820 Gundula Bosch: mit ctl. 165 00:23:26.870 --> 00:23:38.330 Gundula Bosch: You wouldn't want this, either, if you are in a classroom, and when I I mean i'm often hearing from colleagues. But I don't really know how what I should do and what is the limit, and always try to be in the shoes of the student 166 00:23:38.490 --> 00:23:51.760 Gundula Bosch: mit ctl. And if you're in a class, and the teacher stands there in the front and says like, oh, by the way, I just got a ground for this particular research study, and it would be really enjoying if all of you would participate. And let's say the class is about 20 people, strong one. 167 00:23:51.900 --> 00:23:57.319 Gundula Bosch: and you and like, maybe your neighbor, and the one after that feels like, you know, I don't think I want this. 168 00:23:57.470 --> 00:24:03.240 Gundula Bosch: and then, you know, 17 people say, oh, sure, of course teach I do that, and due to 3 of you, so like 169 00:24:03.270 --> 00:24:09.859 Gundula Bosch: I convey that this is not what makes me feel comfortable 170 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:24.849 Gundula Bosch: mit Ctl. And then you know, this alone makes it makes it a problem because your students feel uncomfortable, and your students might feel for us that they, although that they're feeling discomfort, have to participate in this study, so try to be in the shoes of your learners, and when you are thinking about how to advertise your studies, 150. 171 00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.769 Gundula Bosch: The second bullet point on the bottom here says, like. If a 172 00:24:28.250 --> 00:24:36.600 Gundula Bosch: Api and instructor are the same 173 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:52.350 Gundula Bosch: ere 174 00:24:52.360 --> 00:25:05.519 Gundula Bosch: erez agmoni, it's to be involved in the student environment to consent as well as the administration, if necessary. The identification and storage of the student derive data. So think about these kind of things when it comes to ethical implications. 150, 175 00:25:05.590 --> 00:25:08.930 Gundula Bosch: when it comes to a respect for. 176 00:25:09.050 --> 00:25:12.400 and always, as we mentioned and quickly alluded to 177 00:25:12.420 --> 00:25:13.430 Gundula Bosch: beforehand. 178 00:25:14.280 --> 00:25:16.300 Gundula Bosch: Then it's a small course setting 179 00:25:16.350 --> 00:25:29.949 Gundula Bosch: mit ctl, and then, when and very low, right? And another ensuring anonymity can always be a challenge right? So like, because it's very easy to figure out who said that? What in a certain like administration of the questions, or a survey, or something 250, 180 00:25:29.970 --> 00:25:32.989 Gundula Bosch: It can be very easy to 181 00:25:33.070 --> 00:25:47.560 Gundula Bosch: you know it. It can be very difficult to try and anonymize here, and the students also might not give you free and open answers, because they know. Of course, if you. If I say this, then the teacher will immediately conclude that this is my answer. Right? 182 00:25:47.570 --> 00:25:56.080 Gundula Bosch: So these are things that you need to consider, and also discuss with the Irb officer, as well as maybe with other colleagues who have done this before. 183 00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:58.740 Gundula Bosch: So the principle of beneficial 184 00:25:59.260 --> 00:26:05.569 Gundula Bosch: make every effort to maximize benefits and minimize risks, and to, of course, no harm to the study participants. 185 00:26:05.690 --> 00:26:14.829 Gundula Bosch: and applies to our settings. This can include things like being, of course, respectful of study participants potentially experienced in psychological stress and mental health 186 00:26:14.970 --> 00:26:24.019 Gundula Bosch: by adding additional assessments and observations that are mainly good for me as a study Api, but and for good for the data collection, for the completeness of the data 187 00:26:24.030 --> 00:26:35.340 Gundula Bosch: ere. 188 00:26:35.360 --> 00:26:40.819 Gundula Bosch: But the students are already so stressed, and they are having all their finals and everything, and I'm. Adding another survey right? 189 00:26:41.050 --> 00:26:50.199 Gundula Bosch: And then being respectful of students, workloads and time commitments, can also mean that the students, at some point when they are getting survey fatigue, which they anyway already getting right. 190 00:26:50.230 --> 00:26:58.610 Gundula Bosch: and not really giving valid answers in their service. So consider all of these things when it comes to your balancing your 191 00:26:58.830 --> 00:27:00.910 Gundula Bosch: essentially your desire for 192 00:27:00.970 --> 00:27:05.560 Gundula Bosch: being professional in terms of epistemology versus the Essex right. 193 00:27:06.120 --> 00:27:11.160 Gundula Bosch: and then also try using for that reason also for reasons of authenticity. 194 00:27:11.570 --> 00:27:20.739 Gundula Bosch: assessment methods and data collection instruments that maybe you're already using. So not something extra, because it is something that you want to have 195 00:27:20.760 --> 00:27:35.189 Gundula Bosch: but something that's already integrated in your instructional design and your workflow, maybe into a authentic assessment instrument that you're already using. You probably get better by the that. And you basically maximize the benefits and minimize the risks for the students. 150. 196 00:27:35.610 --> 00:27:41.940 Gundula Bosch: Then the last one justice fairly distribute the burdens as well as the benefits right. 197 00:27:41.990 --> 00:27:45.490 Gundula Bosch: and resulting from a participation in such a project 198 00:27:45.570 --> 00:28:03.580 Gundula Bosch: erez agmoni. So the researchers need to make sure that all students, for example, the experimental and control group can access to an educational intervention in a timely manner, because, of course, when we do an intervention, and, for example, I have an innovative course, concept or an innovative module that I want to insert somewhere. And of course I normally do this because I think it works better than 150. 199 00:28:03.590 --> 00:28:07.990 It's working better than what I did before, right. 200 00:28:08.060 --> 00:28:15.599 Gundula Bosch: But still you need to make sure that all students get access to that module in case you are doing an experimental design 201 00:28:15.710 --> 00:28:33.139 Gundula Bosch: so laid access, for example, to such an educational tool or innovation that might lead to a disadvantage to some learners who were in the control group, and, for example, maybe they have less time to prepare for a test on exam, or to miss out on opportunities that might otherwise mean advantages for the experimental group, but not for the control group 100. 202 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:44.759 Gundula Bosch: And so here we need to always make sure that the way how we design our studies are good, and for the for the beneficial of of both groups, and not only for the ones whom we just decided to measure 203 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:46.430 Gundula Bosch: so 204 00:28:46.580 --> 00:28:53.739 Gundula Bosch: so essentially tips to consider when starting to prepare for an irb application for one of these tar projects. 205 00:28:53.980 --> 00:28:57.899 Gundula Bosch: so always try to think about what we just talked about. 206 00:28:58.180 --> 00:29:04.300 Gundula Bosch: How do these Bellman principles apply to my particular teaching situation in my particular educational context? 207 00:29:05.570 --> 00:29:19.709 Gundula Bosch: Erez Agmoni. Can I do to best serve my students learning and their mental well-being? And while I try to reach my study goals again, try to balance your ambitions with the students learning environment, their mental health and well being 101. 208 00:29:20.020 --> 00:29:27.999 Gundula Bosch: And do I actually have conflicts of interest as a Pi and an instructor, and who are the best people to work with expertise, wise, and effort. Wise. 209 00:29:28.020 --> 00:29:45.079 Gundula Bosch: Now we say, like, try not to do an educational scholarship or a tar project on your own. I always try to partner with people, not only because there's always people who bring in unique areas of expertise and competencies, but also because of what I said before, I try to critically evaluate 210 00:29:45.090 --> 00:30:00.810 Gundula Bosch: ere 211 00:30:00.910 --> 00:30:10.450 Gundula Bosch: or somebody else. who can help on the Project Staff member to help you, you know, basically see yourself through somebody else's eyes. 212 00:30:11.090 --> 00:30:28.970 Gundula Bosch: And then, in addition to that, of course, as we mentioned earlier, please contact your IP officer or Toby early in the process for maybe even a planning stage proposal to think about something like study, population, size, composition, and their needs. What data would you intend to collect and how to handle them in terms of 213 00:30:28.980 --> 00:30:34.669 Gundula Bosch: the assessment instruments, and also the questions that Maggie has just mentioned 214 00:30:35.100 --> 00:30:42.840 Gundula Bosch: the instrument design, privacy and confidentiality methods of the identification, data, analysis and storage. How to share 215 00:30:42.850 --> 00:30:59.819 Gundula Bosch: mit ctl and all of a particularly the latter part data, analysis and storage and sharing is something that all of us, now that the Nih becomes very particular in terms of data, sharing and resource, sharing plans have to do anyway, because of our nih applications so definitely, not only in our H. Also Nsf: 150. 216 00:30:59.830 --> 00:31:14.260 Gundula Bosch: So definitely it's something that we need to do, anyway, so it helps you also for your irb application. And then, of course, When you think about the informed consent process right. In which way do you advertise who handles this particular process. 217 00:31:14.550 --> 00:31:23.129 Gundula Bosch: and then also compose a draft of your IP application early and get feedback, because this iterative process can take a while until your proposal really is good 218 00:31:23.180 --> 00:31:36.519 Gundula Bosch: and that way it factors into your time planning and also planning time for the IP decision making process right? So if it's considered exempt, expedited, or definitely might be also sometimes needs for review. 219 00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:48.930 Gundula Bosch: So this one little aspect I wanted to still bring in is a special case in our considerations when it comes to teaching and research. 220 00:31:49.220 --> 00:31:56.380 Gundula Bosch: there are colleagues, and not not few actually at the house who do so-called course or class-based research projects. 221 00:31:56.470 --> 00:32:13.899 Gundula Bosch: and quite often there is a a on felt whether there is some overlap between course-based reasons and teaching as research, particularly when it comes to do. I need an rp application for that particular course of projects in that particular course, and 222 00:32:13.910 --> 00:32:29.629 Gundula Bosch: mit ctl, and here credits go to Janette, Peter and i'm for seeing I have a typo in her name here on the right hand side, Who came up with a kind of a white paper for guidance in terms of course, based research. And how to handle that so just a few characteristics, one 223 00:32:29.690 --> 00:32:32.130 Gundula Bosch: course based research. 224 00:32:32.420 --> 00:32:37.519 Gundula Bosch: our course activities that teach research methods or research techniques. 225 00:32:37.560 --> 00:32:41.140 Gundula Bosch: for example, community-based participatory practice 226 00:32:41.210 --> 00:32:51.369 Gundula Bosch: that may involve data collection about human subjects in order to be in an authentic context. So, for example, about other students, about community members, or what have you 227 00:32:52.280 --> 00:33:05.009 Gundula Bosch: mit ctl? And in our teaching as research projects? by contrast, the student data, for example, learning outcomes, as we said, attitudes evaluations or data about students when it comes to characteristics. For example, 150 228 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:13.309 Gundula Bosch: are definitely collected for research and dissemination purposes in general to contribute to generalizable knowledge in the field. 229 00:33:13.600 --> 00:33:20.240 Gundula Bosch: So, basically on Cdpr side, it may involve data about human subjects. Here it it does 230 00:33:20.970 --> 00:33:27.669 Gundula Bosch: human subject data. Yes, as I mentioned, involving interactions, if involving interactions with human subjects. 231 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:33.310 Gundula Bosch: And if collecting, identifiable, not publicly available to data. 232 00:33:33.950 --> 00:33:35.760 Gundula Bosch: And is it also research. 233 00:33:36.130 --> 00:33:42.660 Gundula Bosch: Not if the data are not used for dissemination, right? If the data are used for dissemination also. Here can be research involved 234 00:33:42.930 --> 00:33:50.620 Gundula Bosch: in a tar project generally. Yes, right. We involve rigorous research methods and investigations with the intent to disseminate. 235 00:33:51.550 --> 00:33:56.029 Gundula Bosch: And then, of course, irp application is is not the default for Cbrs. 236 00:33:56.190 --> 00:34:12.960 Gundula Bosch: except if we intend to have identifiable data that we need to that we intend to disseminate here. Rarely have I seen examples like this, but it can happen just to sensitize everybody, and for tar project. Well, January Yes, right after all. We talked about 237 00:34:13.070 --> 00:34:19.229 Gundula Bosch: at the planning stage definitely, and try to define, at least in a planning stage of prob 238 00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:28.870 Gundula Bosch: to. define with the help of our IP colleagues, whether you are human subjects, research, whether you exempt, expedited, or whatever you are in the full review category. 239 00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:34.730 Gundula Bosch: So essentially these are the things that we wanted to highlight for this particular topic. 240 00:34:34.780 --> 00:34:50.899 Gundula Bosch: And now we wanted to dive into a conversation with Dr. Roso Salamian, who would like to bring a couple of aspects to the table when it comes to Ethical considerations in terms of program evaluation 241 00:34:50.909 --> 00:35:07.569 Gundula Bosch: which she has so beautifully elaborated on in our first teaching workshop, Rosa, would you share a couple of aspects with us in terms of ethical questions that you encountered when you evaluated programs or when you give advice. 242 00:35:07.580 --> 00:35:11.869 Gundula Bosch: how other program directors should evaluate their programs. 243 00:35:12.450 --> 00:35:27.800 Roza Selimyan: Alright, so thank you and Julian. Thank you, Maggie, for addressing so many important topics so far, and what i'm going to mention are things that I have experienced myself or my colleagues 244 00:35:27.810 --> 00:35:37.719 Roza Selimyan: Erez Agmoni, either concurrently working with me or things they observed or experienced in the past. And this many discussions we have had so far 101 245 00:35:37.730 --> 00:35:50.509 Roza Selimyan: erez agmoni and one thing that i'd like to delineate is that everything that was discussed about the importance of ethical considerations when it comes to course-specific evaluations, 150 246 00:35:50.520 --> 00:36:06.109 Roza Selimyan: becomes larger, bigger, and it comes with a more sense of deeper sense of responsibility when it comes to the program wide scale, and one a couple of specific examples that I could provide is this. 247 00:36:06.200 --> 00:36:35.770 Roza Selimyan: all of us would agree about the importance of what, for example, Maggie mentioned in her portion about certain vernacular and certain sensitivities towards specific groups of people as bad as it is if it occurs in one course. You can imagine that it becomes a bigger issue if it is not just in one course, but it happens either in all courses or multiple courses in the program. 248 00:36:35.990 --> 00:36:48.689 Roza Selimyan: And also another topic that gondola mentioned. Sorry for audio distractions. About the students concerns about their 249 00:36:49.180 --> 00:37:08.769 Roza Selimyan: course, and how how destructive the teaching as research might be in their course that they are specifically taking. You can imagine students learning about this kinds of evaluations, and this kind of assessments that would be happening program-wide. 250 00:37:08.780 --> 00:37:27.909 Roza Selimyan: The students would be often concerned not only about their learning experience in that course, or not only about their grade in that course, but they would be concerned about the overall programs throughout, care about their graduation, about their overall academic success, and so on. 251 00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:38.470 Roza Selimyan: So with that and many other reasons. i'm going to make a stronger case for engaging students 252 00:37:38.620 --> 00:37:40.040 Roza Selimyan: faculty 253 00:37:40.080 --> 00:37:45.300 Roza Selimyan: and irb exactly as my colleagues have mentioned before. 254 00:37:45.340 --> 00:37:51.790 Roza Selimyan: And one specific thing about students involvement. would be 255 00:37:52.500 --> 00:38:17.359 Roza Selimyan: the easiest and best way to is their concerns and discomfort is by opening a line of communication where you would address the purpose and processes of any assessment you are doing. And in this case, not only you will is their concerns and stress, but also you will have them involved and more engaged in the process. 256 00:38:17.370 --> 00:38:36.840 Roza Selimyan: Because, yes, we know that we have the best intentions of improving the quality of teaching, and so on, and so forth. But still we are not the students, and quite frankly, the experiences that we had, as students are going to be quite, quite different in most cases than our students are facing currently. 257 00:38:37.090 --> 00:38:53.490 Roza Selimyan: and also one other importance that engaging students would benefit the faculty in this case is when done on the program scale is that you might have students engaged 258 00:38:53.500 --> 00:39:09.389 Roza Selimyan: with the process that took several courses already in the program, so they can have more more deeper. And what do? Why, their concepts when addressing certain issues from the students perspective. 259 00:39:10.240 --> 00:39:16.979 Roza Selimyan: The other case that I would like to make is for involving faculty in the program. 260 00:39:17.010 --> 00:39:26.510 Roza Selimyan: And the point here is that when doing the evaluations, and when considering the ethical considerations. 261 00:39:26.570 --> 00:39:29.250 Roza Selimyan: sorry for to tell the you. 262 00:39:32.100 --> 00:39:40.130 Roza Selimyan: It is not just the sum of each course when you are doing program evaluations, and when 263 00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:51.589 Roza Selimyan: ere. 264 00:39:51.600 --> 00:40:02.269 Roza Selimyan: and to have faculty who are teaching and involved in different courses are is going to be helpful in more than one 265 00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:20.570 Roza Selimyan: one specific aspect that you would. You might want to consider is the following: it is usually a great idea to not look into any data until the final grades are submitted, if possible. 266 00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:40.810 Roza Selimyan: But it's not always possible. So what do you doing in this case? The next? The best option is actually to have someone else look at the data than the person teaching the course. So again, for this and many other reasons, and a gondola also mentioned that. 267 00:40:40.820 --> 00:40:44.929 Roza Selimyan: with people teaching different courses have such 268 00:40:45.010 --> 00:40:48.689 Roza Selimyan: wide experiences that we can all. 269 00:40:48.710 --> 00:41:16.519 Roza Selimyan: learn from each other, give each other reminders, and so on and so forth. One last point about faculty body that i'd like to mention is for you to not feel shy, to reach out, to expertise outside of the program. It is helpful to use other programs that are focused on the same areas are similar, very similar programs, but not always it's 270 00:41:16.570 --> 00:41:29.449 Roza Selimyan: it. It might be also very helpful to you to reach out to people who are not necessarily from. They are not necessarily from molecular biology, field, and so on, and so forth. 271 00:41:29.550 --> 00:41:45.130 Roza Selimyan: And the very last small point, i'm going to make is that the are the officers. So people like Toby, and also people like Tyler should be one of your best friends in this process 272 00:41:45.140 --> 00:41:58.699 Roza Selimyan: because they are on top of everything, and they are very helpful with technical issues, with philosophical issues, and so on and so forth. So this is my last piece, and i'll turn the floor back to going to la 273 00:42:00.600 --> 00:42:30.100 Gundula Bosch: many things as always, Rosa, for your invaluable advice so definitely everybody doing or even thinking about program evaluation should always talk to Rosa first, because she's such a great source of information I definitely do. They'll have to meet for our much postponed part for chocolate very soon, so we'll have to do that. So with that. Actually, I wanted to do 2 things, namely, both open the floor up to questions from the audience, but as specifically, maybe, lead that session in a little bit with a a conversation 274 00:42:30.290 --> 00:42:48.059 Gundula Bosch: with the practitioners, namely, of course, Emmy Hughes and Maggie, for example. who mentioned that, you know, going with your courses and taking your course materials to the stage of doing teaching as research and having done it already, and 275 00:42:48.070 --> 00:42:59.119 Gundula Bosch: mit Ctl. And now, looking at ethical questions, what are things that come to your mind when you look at your setting at your situation, as somebody says like, okay, now, I have to start thinking about this 150. 276 00:42:59.130 --> 00:43:14.240 Gundula Bosch: What are the first thing that come for you to mind that you would like to bring to the attention of others when it comes to getting started. Maybe you have even tried already, and are facing some obstacles. So what are things that you would like to bring to attention? Thank you very much. I mean. 277 00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:22.339 M E Hughes: Well, this is not. This is not a very profound question. But, Maggie, I guess you I always tell my students don't start like that. 278 00:43:22.510 --> 00:43:32.220 M E Hughes: I was just a little confused by Maggie, your presentation. You were talking about assessments of the of like the teaching methods you weren't talking about assessments 279 00:43:32.230 --> 00:43:44.569 M E Hughes: of like like quizzes in a class or something like that. Is that true or not true? Not necessarily looking at like quizzes, or those those things that you're doing through a class, but rather if you're looking 280 00:43:44.710 --> 00:43:52.509 Maggie Wear: at teaching as research in terms of development where you're looking for specific milestones as soon as 281 00:43:52.600 --> 00:44:08.570 M E Hughes: yeah, I was, I mean, because, of course, when you said we're talking about assessment design, and I was thinking all of those principles could also be applied to questions on it. Yeah, so that's what I was thinking. That would be another thing. I think we're going to cover. We'll do a lot more on assessment design. 282 00:44:11.380 --> 00:44:14.740 Maggie Wear: so I think maybe i'll try to. 283 00:44:15.190 --> 00:44:20.069 Maggie Wear: I don't know. Bring Bring down the level of nervousness on 284 00:44:20.090 --> 00:44:36.410 Maggie Wear: so I've done this, and in collaboration with Tyler de we're in the process of writing up for the first time one of these courses, and I have to say I have another course that I I probably have more than enough data to write up. 285 00:44:36.860 --> 00:44:40.409 Maggie Wear: and the barrier for me getting there right now 286 00:44:40.510 --> 00:44:47.599 Maggie Wear: is writing me Irb, because I didn't write the Irb before I started teaching the class 287 00:44:50.780 --> 00:44:54.369 Maggie Wear: my opening point of saying like. 288 00:44:55.580 --> 00:44:56.160 Maggie Wear: Hey. 289 00:44:56.540 --> 00:45:02.899 Maggie Wear: We all think, oh, we're gonna have everything planned perfectly, and it's all going to go great. 290 00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:07.539 Maggie Wear: It doesn't happen that way. and so yeah, I've been 291 00:45:07.620 --> 00:45:14.659 Maggie Wear: putting it off because it is a daunting task, for I don't know how long, 2 and a half, maybe 3 years. 292 00:45:15.140 --> 00:45:31.869 Gundula Bosch: So this is actually a question for Toby. If she's able to join us right, I mean, it's something that is a reality right? So like it is something. And I've been there right so like in my early days, definitely, it was a while ago, so like about the decade also, but it wasn't the early days, but I still remember that 293 00:45:32.140 --> 00:45:48.390 Gundula Bosch: I had. I had the the the first. This was the fun of the first years I taught introduction to biomedical sciences. Right, of course, absolutely classic for educational research. Right? Large enrollment every year. Many students come from many different disciplines, tons of cool questions to ask right. 294 00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:52.720 Gundula Bosch: I had absolutely no idea that this was human subject research right? Absolutely not right. 295 00:45:52.740 --> 00:46:05.379 Gundula Bosch: And then I walk, you know for completely naive me to the not unfortunately now late Noel rose at the time, who from whom I took this course over, and then he says, You know he was always very kind and friendly, and smiled at me, and so like. 296 00:46:05.680 --> 00:46:09.249 Gundula Bosch: So you're thinking about doing research and stuff like, yeah, yeah. And then he said 297 00:46:09.530 --> 00:46:10.769 Gundula Bosch: with the students. 298 00:46:10.940 --> 00:46:12.770 Gundula Bosch: Yeah, yeah, of course this is. 299 00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:16.229 Gundula Bosch: And is that like, Have you heard of human subject research. And i'm like 300 00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:34.879 Gundula Bosch: in this context, and that's all essentially right. So like if we had to, and then to a very, very kind senior not anymore now, but at that time Senior Irb member in the exempt category right? And said like, and now what do we have to do right now? I sit there making a completely. Now you face right? 301 00:46:35.010 --> 00:46:46.879 Gundula Bosch: And then she says, like, yeah, this this this and now that ks your Ib officer, talk to this person right? And he! He's been with me ever since, by the way. So he he's a he's the he's the patience in person right so like 302 00:46:47.030 --> 00:46:47.879 this. 303 00:46:47.900 --> 00:46:51.599 Gundula Bosch: So, anyway, this is what I learned. There is essentially 304 00:46:51.820 --> 00:46:55.549 Gundula Bosch: get involved in with with with your Rb colleagues like 305 00:46:55.680 --> 00:47:04.580 Gundula Bosch: right now, right? So like, because just ask, and the people are wonderful. It's like I've never met a single person in the office who wasn't just absolutely wonderful, and they help 306 00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:09.400 Maggie Wear: told me. What you're saying is we should all write down Toby's name and inundate her with emails. 307 00:47:09.410 --> 00:47:38.389 Tobey McGuiness: So yeah, Toby will kill me absolutely. And just to give you a quick overview. I am the Irb navigator for the office slash irb analysts, so I not only review applications for Irb. X, which are minimal risk. I'm the navigator, and this is a new position that started last October, and i'm here to bridge that gap between faculty students and the Irb office. So absolutely. 308 00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:49.449 Tobey McGuiness: please feel free to email me. We could set up a zoom, whatever you need. and I can, You know, if I don't have the answer, I will find it. so i'm here to help. 309 00:47:50.340 --> 00:47:54.770 Maggie Wear: So maybe we should throw you under the bus a little bit and say, does anybody have any questions for you. 310 00:47:55.130 --> 00:48:08.859 M E Hughes: I do in my position as questioner, official questioner. I have vague ideas of what i'd like to do with the course, but it sounds like you would be open to even meeting with me and saying. 311 00:48:08.870 --> 00:48:19.760 M E Hughes: Okay, I mean, you know what is your vague idea, and this is what you might have to do for each stage, and I most. I'm always saying this, that's my understanding, is Yes, but i'm saying this almost to reinforce what it's been said, I think. 312 00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:34.640 Tobey McGuiness: Yeah, yeah, but absolutely. for instance, I just met with some Phd students and they are in the you know, thinking process. They haven't really gotten anything down yet, and we went through 313 00:48:34.670 --> 00:48:44.989 Tobey McGuiness: sort of what they're thinking about. And and I let them know. You know, sort of the ethical aspects of things that they need to think about, particularly with international research. 314 00:48:45.010 --> 00:48:55.659 Tobey McGuiness: privacy, confidentiality. So, of course, yes, absolutely reach out as soon as you can, and and we can help you. Just guide you along the way. 315 00:48:55.940 --> 00:49:21.760 Tobey McGuiness: It strikes me that that's also efficient, because it may be that some projects are just not going to be doable. Given other constraints for Irv reasons, right? Absolutely. That is one of the key reasons that this position was created because there are some very complicated studies, you know. If you have phase studies, multi country studies, you know things like that just to help you think about 316 00:49:21.770 --> 00:49:25.110 Tobey McGuiness: the best way to do it. The best way to write it you need 317 00:49:25.130 --> 00:49:35.480 Tobey McGuiness: individual new applications. You want one big application. So those kinds of things. So yeah, we can totally brainstorm with you. And you know, let you know what to think about. 318 00:49:39.940 --> 00:49:49.209 Gundula Bosch: I'm actually still with you all, I just have to run to a class, believe it or not. So i'm leaving the camera off right now. But I left a discussion to all of you. If there are any questions from the audience one 319 00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:54.930 Gundula Bosch: Also, since we have such a great group of enthusiasts and experts in the room. 320 00:49:55.200 --> 00:49:58.889 Maggie Wear: I may have psychically intuitive that and just 321 00:49:59.520 --> 00:50:06.859 Gundula Bosch: wonderful actually also what I have not said yet, and maybe this is the last thing I can do here before I have to run out is 322 00:50:08.380 --> 00:50:14.410 Gundula Bosch: when I quickly re-shared a Powerpoint and show you something that we can all 323 00:50:14.620 --> 00:50:18.690 Gundula Bosch: maybe share with everybody who's interested is our resources slide. 324 00:50:18.750 --> 00:50:22.940 Gundula Bosch: And on this resources slide. I think everybody can see it right. 325 00:50:22.970 --> 00:50:26.969 Gundula Bosch: Is lots of resources from our IP office. 326 00:50:27.640 --> 00:50:36.240 Gundula Bosch: and then also some more related resources that we have under the guidances tab and anywhere else in the in the resource web Page. 327 00:50:36.330 --> 00:50:40.740 Gundula Bosch: If I send you the Powerpoint, you will get all of these. These are all clickable links 328 00:50:40.910 --> 00:50:53.899 Gundula Bosch: that you can use, and then also some background resources here, and what I wanted to specifically highlight until we are in the process of Toby, and that Joan and I are in the process of simplifying this document here a little bit. 329 00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:54.850 Gundula Bosch: It was 330 00:50:54.980 --> 00:51:04.500 Gundula Bosch: a couple of years ago, written up by Jennifer Petro, our former Dean of research and Faculty, about essentially, specifically, those 2 331 00:51:04.510 --> 00:51:21.279 Gundula Bosch: mit Ctl. And course based the research situations that you can be in, and try to see where you are walking. The fine line between having to a file for Irb or not. Right? These kind of resources. So all of these tend to be very helpful resources when it comes to answering your questions. 250 332 00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:40.150 Gundula Bosch: just wanted to quickly Share this and say that in case anybody needs it, we are happy to happy to to share this with you. If I ever find that button again where I can unshare, then you know. In the meantime, if anybody has a question, then please let us know 333 00:51:40.530 --> 00:51:44.360 M E Hughes: before you go go, and I want to thank you for the really clear 334 00:51:44.450 --> 00:51:48.370 M E Hughes: explanation of how the Belmont principles apply to educational research. 335 00:51:48.510 --> 00:51:49.350 M E Hughes: I mean 336 00:51:49.520 --> 00:51:54.579 M E Hughes: I I went to felt that they didn't, but that was just a really clear explanation. So thank you for that. 337 00:51:54.760 --> 00:52:11.140 Gundula Bosch: Thank you. It was probably just a very little glimpse, because, as Toby just mentioned, they are, of course, much more complicated studies. Right? So like this is what's just a very early, very simple part right, but it can be simple, right so like, and also in the in the process of discussing with our irb colleagues. 338 00:52:11.150 --> 00:52:31.089 Gundula Bosch: it might be that you decide that the study that you originally had in mind is just not doable right, not only for ethical reasons, but also for feasibility reasons. And then you pull it down to something that's much more doable, much more simple. Or you decide for something that let's do something first and then do something else later. Right so. But all of these 339 00:52:31.100 --> 00:52:41.930 Gundula Bosch: You know the conversations with colleagues help a lot in in designing your study and making everything much more doable. So all the entire daunting tasks that you think at the beginning it is become so much more doable, 150. 340 00:52:41.940 --> 00:52:58.860 Gundula Bosch: And actually for me also the only the very first IP application was really a mountain to come over right the other ones you can experience right? And then you, you I? Yeah, I did it first time I did it here. Maybe I do something similar here. I have to have a little bit of an alteration, but it was something you benefit from your experience. 341 00:52:59.110 --> 00:53:03.180 Gundula Bosch: and there's always colleagues who have iop applications so you can. 342 00:53:03.410 --> 00:53:08.249 Gundula Bosch: I can use other people's and see what how this applies to you, and in which way you do it. Right? 343 00:53:08.730 --> 00:53:09.549 Okay. 344 00:53:10.140 --> 00:53:12.689 Gundula Bosch: Good. So I have to, unfortunately. 345 00:53:13.040 --> 00:53:20.089 Gundula Bosch: but you know, feel free to keep on discussing. I hear you for a couple of minutes, so that I have to have to run to my class. 346 00:53:20.190 --> 00:53:22.260 Tobey McGuiness: Thank you. This was really informative. 347 00:53:24.080 --> 00:53:27.100 Gundula Bosch: Well, thank you, Toby. Of course thank you for being here. 348 00:53:27.150 --> 00:53:29.420 Gundula Bosch: Of course, any other questions. 349 00:53:37.740 --> 00:53:44.509 Gundula Bosch: It seems this is not the case, so I think. Then we can thank everybody who is so clear. 350 00:53:44.660 --> 00:54:03.249 Gundula Bosch: Everybody who attended and who uses us. And yeah, thank you for everybody and the team for helping again for Toby and Felicity. Thank you very much. It was fun, as always, and we already look forward to the next offering of Our Tower Series sometime next spring. 351 00:54:03.320 --> 00:54:09.049 Gundula Bosch: and happy holidays to everybody. 352 00:54:10.570 --> 00:54:12.889 Roza Selimyan: A few holidays everyone.